Here's what you need to check and correct:
- Grammar/Vocabulary/Punctuation mistakes.
- Rephrase Awkward sentences without changing the meaning. Please Discuss it with the Translator.
- Make sure that every sentence DOES have a period/exclamation mark/question mark/etc.
- Check that the names and common terms are written in the correct form. Check the NAME LIST posted for each project.
- Make sure that each time that you change something, There is always a complete copy of the correct translations for the editors to download. (which means, do not just write our changes seperatly, change it from the document). For stuff that you are unsure of, PLEASE discuss it with the Translator.
---
EDIT: PR guidelines can be found here (http://www.mediafire.com/view/ysb79tqazcu334o/PR_Guidelines.doc).
Thanks for that Xye
Can we make the test official or do you want me to alter it?
Where do I go for the test????
i havent had the time to look at it yet TT.TT plus we need the raws for it too.
The test I sent was soley a grammatical one.
Xye, could you please find just a five minute slot to discuss this with me?
I would like to know what you want in the test, and how you are accepting the proofreaders.
If they don't meet standards, I strongly suggest that you try not to train them.
I know that you don't approve of testing, but PRs are so easy to get, maybe we could do preliminary testing just this once... T.T
We'll see. See you sometime tonight/tomorrow. :bow:
:omg: sry i read this late... well i will be complllleeetely free by this wednesday =)
CONTRACTION PROBLEMS
These are summaries of contraction rules. Useful for any English class.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/621/01/
http://writing2.richmond.edu/writing/wweb/possessive.html
Please refer to this for a list of correct contractions
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/grammar/contractions/
POSSESSIVE and CONTRACTION are different. The follow two sentences are NOT equivalent in conventional English.
1) Maria is in love.
2) Maria's in love.
The second one indicates a possessive noun. If it is confusing, you probably should leave it not contracted or ask the translator.
And even though we try to make it as colloquial as possible, changing everything into contraction could really anger a translator who spends hours and hours translating. If anything, VERB TENSE is the most common mistakes in Asian --> English translations.
Sorry, but I've got to make a stand here. There is no rule against using an apostrophe to make a contraction of "is" with a proper noun, at least not in the links you gave or any of the places I checked. Of course, it would not be acceptable in a formal paper (no contractions are,) but in situations where you are tying to put everyday language into writing, it's fine. http://blog.writersdigest.com/qq/Contractions+With+Proper+Nouns+Brians+A+Baseball+Fan.aspx
So, for a manga, when a character isn't using formal speech, I would argue that your example sentences are both acceptable. The contraction will not be mistaken for possession because of the context and it better reflects how the sentence would be spoken in casual conversation. Of course, if it's formal speech, like a business setting or magical rites or something, then contractions shouldn't be used and the PR should be picking up on that.
I have a great respect and appreciation for all our translators and their work. It'd be pointless without you guys. I will never knowingly make a change that could have an impact in the meaning without checking with the translator first. However, as a PR, I want to be able to take pride in the finished script and I want to respect the mangaka by trying to make the dialog as natural and perfect as it was in its original language. Translators and PRs should be able to work together to make this happen.
So the two sentences in my last post are equal? O_o
I mean, it is kind of a stretch for that case. Probably a debatable issue.
And it is just "is", which can be easily written out and spoken uncontracted.
Oh and by crazy amount of changes, I mean when everything is changed. Like, you open a document and see every sentence colored and revised by a PR, most of which are style changes and not grammar changes or usage changes.
Agreed, Dars. In the context of day to day life, no one will mix the two up, though it does become stupid if you use it to replace every "is" that appears after someone's name or a pronoun.
Even the horrid "She's stony" (which always sounds like "she's stone" to me. Why?) can't be mixed up with the possesive "stony of she" or whatever.
If I said "I like every flavor of ice cream there's" that would be a much different situation. D:<
Anyway, Cat's always getting mad at me for the above problem (opening up a document and seeing ever sentenced colored and revised XD) so I'm going to go hide now... >_>
Quote from: Catriona on June 29, 2011, 12:26
So the two sentences in my last post are equal? O_o
Yup, they´re equal. ^^ It
is debatable, though, when to contract and when not to, based on how you think a character talks, the situation the character is in, if there is emphasis, or even the phrase itself. And, like Lily said, of course you shouldn't be contracting every "is." XD
Even though it's just "is," though, there are some instances where native English speakers would expect to hear the contracted "is," and will detect its absence. For example, almost never will you hear someone saying "That is no fun!" instead of "That's no fun!" (Unless it is said slowly, with dramatic emphasis, like "
That is
no fun.") If "That is no fun!" came up in a dialog featuring a whining character, I
would register that as an error, and it would bother me.
Details like that are a PRs job, as the "experts." Based on the clues in the translation and raws, and our knowledge of English, we try to figure out if contractions, emphasis, rephrasing, and etc. is warranted. Going overboard on style-based changes when they're not necessary is one thing, but TLs should be able to place a little trust in the judgement of PRs regarding contractions and phrasing, especially if they're not native English speakers. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the question of contractions and rephrases might be better to work out on a case-by-case basis and between individual translators, proofreaders and admins of a project, as opposed to making a general rule. As a group that aims for HQ scans, shouldn't our goal be to have the best quality scripts, as opposed to minimal corrections?
Any other translators or proofreaders care to weigh in on this?
Haha... Is this partly my fault, Cat? :swt: Haha, yeah, I used wayyy too many contractions when PRing the latest Scarlet Palace chapter... And for that, I've apologized and will learn from my mistake. ;D
Well, Catriona and I have discussed this over Scarlet Palace already, and I've agreed with her no contraction policy for that particular series. I understand where Cat is coming from, especially for the kind of series that takes place in a palace or royal city. The characters will be speaking slightly more formally on a regular basis than in, say, Bibi (a school setting), so there can be little to no contractions throughout the entire script without the script losing its quality. :goodjob:
However, I also agree with Darselo: there's nothing wrong with contractions -- as long as they're used correctly! There shouldn't be a general rule; contractions should be handled between each series' translator and proofreader.
A little late--
I agree. That proofreaders and translators should work together, and that the translator should at least trust the proofreader. As for the contraction issue, I think it depends on the series--when it takes place in time. That's when it's more important. Or if you were translating based on character personality. For example, characters who are the trouble kids or what not would probably use contractions more versus children raised in a highly formal household that almost goes back to the victorian era. Though, I expect the translator will note that.
:omg: I apologize for making this into a huge thing... (it was something I wanted to tell you, that's all. And I got complains about this when I PRed or QCed a while back)
Ryu just reminded me this problem xD
Righttt so Darselo asked me if this contraction issue is a new rule. NO IT IS NOT A RULE~
And whether you abide by it or not, that is up to the individuals but I hope it won't become a issue that we argue over (like the ellipse problem).
the link for the RP guidelines is broken...
Updated again! I'll post a convenient check-list for new proofreaders to use :)
Quote from: Furgeson on May 23, 2012, 17:30
Updated again! I'll post a convenient check-list for new proofreaders to use :)
Much appreciated. <3 Also, did you update the link in the last 12 hours? (Aka, do I have to dl it again?)
Quote from: Tear on May 23, 2012, 17:50
Much appreciated. <3 Also, did you update the link in the last 12 hours? (Aka, do I have to dl it again?)
Yes, DL it again.
xEDIT;
Reasons why answering that questions was a waste of my time:
a) Tear is a Traitor.
b) It says in the post that the document has been downloaded 0 times.
c) You could have downloaded it and compared it to your previous downloaded version.
d) The post also says when the attached link was last edited.
Learn your forum-ology, woman.
Quote from: Furgeson
xEDIT;
Reasons why answering that questions was a waste of my time:
a) Tear is a Traitor.
b) It says in the post that the document has been downloaded 0 times.
c) You could have downloaded it and compared it to your previous downloaded version.
d) The post also says when the attached link was last edited.
Learn your forum-ology, woman.
1. Don't worry, I'll always love you, Lady Lily~
2. The dl count doesn't show on my phone's version of the forum.
3. I'm at work, so I can't dl the new version to compare.
4. I was hoping it would be the same so that when I got home I could just type up the proofread script when I got home instead of having to redo it. :P
A foolish hope, as it turns out. :P
Quote from: Tear on May 23, 2012, 20:55
A foolish hope, as it turns out. :P
Yup, you are foolish :)
Moral of the story: Do not try to PR at work. Espcially not on your phone.
Lots of people say that they prefer Okay to OK, so I changed the guidelines to reflect that. If I made a horrible mistake let me know.